Thursday, August 27, 2009

A visit to the Friendly Atheist's blog

Back in '07 I used to hang out on Hemant's blog, and I still stop by every now and then just to see how things are going. I saw Hemant at the recent SSA conference in Columbus and considered saying hello and reminiscing, but with his increasing fame in the secular blogosphere I doubt if he would have had much time for me. Last night I saw a post about Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, author, and host of the PBS series Nova Science Now. Tyson had been interviewed in a recent issue of The Humanist and had been asked about his nonreligious affiliation. His answer, I feel, was well stated:


I’ve never identified with any movement. I just am what I am and occasionally a movement claims me because there is resonance between my writings and speeches and what they do, and that’s fine; I don’t mind that. But no, I have never been politically or organizationally active in that way. Astrophysics — that’s what I identify with.


He went on to mention that, on his wiki page, he had to adjust the applied label atheist to agnostic a couple of times; apparently somebody (and indeed, who knows who it could have been on Wikipedia) felt some urgent need to pin the Scarlet A on the astrophysicist.

The comments and discussion following the post, I must say, were the best I've seen yet in a secular blog. Kudos to the courage of Janiece, who said


Isn’t it a bit of a non-starter to debate someone else’s religious self-identification?

If he says he’s an agnostic, then that’s what he is. Claiming he’s really an atheist in order to use his fame to promote your own movement makes you no better than the dipsticks who try to claim the U.S. is a “Christian nation.”


And my hat is off to an anonymous poster who argued very eloquently about the labeling issue:


For what it’s worth, I’m disappointed in atheists who insist that other atheists should always accept and embrace the atheist label. It’s that same identity politics mentality – your atheist in-group comes first, and everything else comes second. I disagree.

I think Neil provides a sound example of when your atheism should come second. Scientific literacy and/or critical thinking are far more important than accepting that there is no God. You won’t get people to accept that God doesn’t exist if they don’t think critically or are not scientifically literate to begin with.n the

A concrete example is the evolution-creationism debate. I agree with evolutionary biologists that real biology would be better served if atheists just butted out.

I don’t mean that atheists shouldn’t contribute to the defense of evolution. But they shouldn’t defend evolution under the banner of atheism. That is utterly stupid and counterproductive – it just reinforces religious resistance to taking science seriously, or to asking questions critically. It actually turns people away (religious people) from becoming scientifically literate or critical thinkers.

If you care about scientific literacy and/or critical thinking, you should be willing to admit that there are times when identity politics doesn’t trump everything else. Promoting atheism is important, but not as important as educating the public about science, or getting people to examine questions in a thoughtful way.

I see this as the biggest divide within organized atheism. Most groups think that identity politics comes before all else, but a few recognize that their atheism isn’t everything. This is probably why the Center for Inquiry has a secular humanism wing over here, and a skeptic wing over there. There is an implied recognition there that getting non-atheists to think critically is more important than getting them to accept atheism.


I am in complete agreement with both Janiece's and anonymous' thinking, and I'm concerned that anonymous may have felt the need to remain anonymous because of his or her perfectly okay, but dissenting, viewpoint. Is it not well within the definition of free thought to be able to discuss differences of opinion within the community openly and without fear of jerk retaliation?

I have no problem with Tyson's desire to just pursue his science. I'd be happy to do the same. My question to those who criticize his decision is, in some perfect world where we eventually achieve acceptance for the secular worldview, what is the secular activist to do? The answer's simple: retire from the activism and concentrate on things that really matter, like exploring the bigger questions of how the natural world - and the universe - works. We harp so much about defending science, but then we toss it into the back seat in favor of the War. Strange.

And it's not like Tyson hasn't been pulled into the conflict anyway.

4 comments:

  1. I'm concerned that anonymous may have felt the need to remain anonymous because of his or her perfectly okay, but dissenting, viewpoint. Is it not well within the definition of free thought to be able to discuss differences of opinion within the community openly and without fear of jerk retaliation?

    Apparently not. Ever since the Friendly Atheist began moderating his blog, I have been unable to post there. My comments now seem to go straight into the trash can. I've tried to post two different comments multiple times, but to no avail. Other comments get posted; mine never appear. Who knows how many other comments now end up on the cutting room floor.

    A pity considering that my only crime is refusing to toe the identity politics party line. I suppose that when you can't refute a book your next best option is to burn all the copies of it.

    They say that the best response to wrong speech is more speech. But instead of responding to my critical comments with rebuttal, I have been silenced.

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  2. I am deeply sorry to hear this, anonymous. Back in '07 when I was on Hemant's blog more often, I got the distinct impression in correspondence with him that he wasn't a big fan of my ideas or my enthusiasm. I imagine that my fate would eventually have been the same as yours, to be silenced. Fortunately, those of us who refuse to toe that identity politics party line can still create our own blogs and speak out from those. I hope you will pursue that option if you feel, as I do, that something new needs to be said about this 'movement' of ours. It's not perfect, and it could be much better, if only people would listen to reason.

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  3. something new needs to be said about this 'movement' of ours. It's not perfect, and it could be much better, if only people would listen to reason.

    Organized atheism is in dire need of critique, but I have never felt that any movement associated with it was my movement.

    If the goal is to "mobilize" secularists, what are they being mobilized for? For anything worthwhile, or only for trivial things?

    I can see being motivated/mobilized to ensure that every American has access to affordable healthcare, or to end the Iraq war. With real issues like that, worrying about engravings of "In God We Trust" is incredibly superficial and trivial. If you're going to fight over something, expend your energy on something substantial.

    I don't think, I'm sorry to say, that the current secularist movement can be reformed by "listening to reason". There is a reason people like you and I are silenced rather than rebutted. Our points are valid on their own merits, and so no credible rebuttal is possible. So silencing us is the next best option. As Upton Sinclair said: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when their pensions depend on not understanding it."

    Maybe something positive can come from like-minded organizations, but it's not going to come from the identity politics factions whose pensions depend on keeping the culture wars going. If the war ended, they would all be out of work and have nothing to do with themselves.

    At least in principle, I think there is hope for the Council for Secular Humanism, Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, or the Skeptics Society. CSH only dabbles in politics in part, and the skeptics don't deal with them at all. Goals to weed out falsehood and so pursue truth are, I think, positive and noble ones.

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  4. Check this out:

    http://friendlyatheist.com/2010/02/02/the-problems-with-atheist-publicity-stunts/

    Should atheist groups try to make headlines and get attention when their ideas have little to no chance of succeeding?

    Why waste our time and energy on things like this?

    These are silly distractions.

    My irony meter just went off the scale. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    How are these examples "silly distractions" while suing the government because Obama says "so help me God" at his inauguration, or because Obama attends a prayer breakfast, is serious business?

    Silly distractions all.

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